Aye, it's always awesome to optimize and try and quicken up our render times, but I think that patience is more than a virtue! I've been playing with some weird shadow effects as well, using lights with white shadows to produce a weird haze around everthing (I'll try and post the pic tonight). But to be honest, what has saved me from ever whining about render times is one thing : Sleep! Never sacrifice quality over quantity, just click the button and go pass out for a while... Actualy, I'm lying. Bryce Lightning and a small horde of Athlon-based machines have given me new faith in Bryce 5's rendering power. One more thing, I'm interested in seeing your results, Clyde, do you think you could post your candle image for me/us?