Since hardly anyone will bother to read this far into the thread, I won't go through a detailed deconstruction of the illogic that oozes from a certain percentage of the membership here on security and related issues every time they are raised. But a few things should be noted. [Although I should not have to note this, I will state at the outset that I have never even met a CL employee, let alone been one.] What I will point out is that CL is far, far, far more responsive to the opinions, desires and outright whims of its customer base than MS, or just about any software company you would like to name. The fact that Mr. Hernandez posts messages here like the head msg in this thread, undoubtedly knowing what would follow, is indisputable proof of this point. I have no illusion that Mr. Hernandez, or Mr. Cooper, or anyone else from CL does so out of pure altruism. But their near-masochistic willingness to air these issues in forums like this does say something about their business savvy and their business ethics. I think that CL does treat its customers well, and does inform them of CL's problems. Unfortunately, there is always going to be a vocal (but probably fringe) segment that will complain unless CL gives their product away for free, and has kupa install it personally. And suggesting that CL is like Enron or Worldcom is not only unfair, it is probably libel. I will also point out that CL's costs of doing business are our costs. This is basic economics. When you buy something at a store, you are indeed (as at least one person above figured out) paying extra to cover the cost of shoplifting. BTW, many stores have security cameras; are the people who are going to avoid P5 also avoiding stores which treat them like suspects in this way? The lock analogy: Yes, the dedicated warezer will probably crack P5, just as the pro thief can bypass the lock on your door. Yet I wonder how many of the folks who claim they won't license P5 have locks on their homes or cars...and use them. Maybe they tell realtors or landlords or car dealers that they will not buy or rent or lease a place or car that has gasp locks, but I doubt it. Finally, if you search the forum, I believe you'll find that network rendering is "on the horizon" for P5... Bravo to JDK, Virus, Chris and the others here who seem to have a keener grip on reality.