"Jack: Don't bite yer tongue, it's painful and it's to no real avail. ;]" Too true, too true... however it's not much different than trying to add or interject a voice of reason to a starey eyed mob. After our few hours of conversation about this, you already know what my opinion and concerns are about it. The Fact is this: Despite all of the BS being posted in this thread, nothing is going to change. The "fans" of Curious Labs will purchase Poser 5 and be the first on their block to own it. Whereas, the "conservative" will wait to purchase the product till they are satisfied that it is hard earned money worth spending. As well as, the "warez kiddies" will wait for the patch/crack and others will just wont purchase it, for whatever reason, be it the need to serious upgrade their processors and memory or hard drive space. Many are going to find or have reasons of why they are... or aren't going to buy Poser 5. Right now I am respecting the wishes and desires of Steve Cooper and Diane Griffith and refraining from saying too much about Poser 5, which certainly has it's good points and bad points. I will respect their wishes and wait till Poser 5 is released before posting my views. The only thing I will say, is I will NEVER be a beta tester for Curious Labs (or likely any software company) again, nor would I ever expect to be asked to be one. Not that anyone is going to give a two bit sh*t about my opinion(s) or even listen. People will buy it or wont. They will praise it or condemn it. Laugh or cry. Cling and clatter it doesn't really matter. You win some and you lose some I am sure Curious Labs like all companies knows and understands this. They'll come and reply to this thread and five more will take it's place... with or without Poser, the sun will still rise and fall, the Earth will still turn... it doesn't really matter. Jack