'So are they there or not?' I certainly hope not! The first thing I did with P4 was get rid of all those blasted aminals (sic). I realise there are poor, twisted people out there who love to torture and main aminals in poser, but I think this practice should be strongly discouraged. Let them go torture real aminals, and leave the poser ones alone! If they come as a separate download, that's wonderful. It'll save me the trouble of deleting them, and perhaps CL will be able to keep tabs on these sick individuals who download them! Prosecution is not out of the question! Be warned! mac >RSPCA - Really Sick of the Poser Cuddly Aminals