I d/l'd cacheman, tried several different profiles, it didn't make a difference. As an experiment, I installed poser and propack to my other computer, same problem on that computer. I bought poser4 when it first was released (Metacreations) since then I've had it installed in 3 different computers and I've had this problem in all of them. Is it possible I just got a bad cd? Would C L be willing to replace it? The program doesn't lock up every time I use it, I've played with it for hours with no problems. there are other times when it will lock up within the first 10 or 15 minutes, it just seems to be a random thing. Upgrading to 5 is not an option, at least untill I upgrade my computer anyway, for what it for 4 is more than enough. sorry to be so long winded, but this is really starting to bug me. Again thanks for your help.