OK, the shadows in the Stoned Sklug render make it look like the blue tubes are away from the surface, they are not. Thos oval things were boxes. The P4 Render is as the object was modeled. It looks like the parctice of smoothing edges, something all us P4 model makers do as a motter of practice really throws the smooth polygons thing off. If you make sharp edges (like the prop box) it doesn't do this. No bigge, except every poser prop out there except the box has co-planar, or beveled edges. This particular prop has co-planar cornars. Not a knee jerk reaction. I didn't get un-happy until I read the entire Chapter and tried about a hundred test renders. The more I played the more problems I found. Trying to work around one bug just made 2 or 3 more popup. Don't get me wrong on the whole I'm really happy, the Cloth thing is WAY COOL. I'm still playing with dynamic hair, but it has real promise. And Clooision detection will save a lot of time. Yeah, it crashes. So does MAX. P4 used to crash all the time. I know that will be fixed in patches. I just don't see patches fixing Stoned Sloth. I hope I'm wrong.