Reason I asked is that I saw posette rendered with poly smoothing and she looked alot better. What is bad about the above 2 examples is that the better shadowing is in the FF engine, but the correct detail is gone. jjsemp: Not trying to knock it too much until we get into the meat of the proggy. Just simply saying the FF engine is a bit underwhelming as it is. I don't think anyone is really misrepresenting it, per say as much as showing what they are getting from it. Heck, even screenshots from the "PoserPro's" who got to do testing and are not only experts with P4, but have had alot more time on it have gotten a grasp than we have are not very impressive (look at the gallery at RuntimeDNA for instance). I also want to add that Nerd is someone I would consider a "Pro" and respected member of the community and I respect his opinions. However, I had already concluded taht I am not very impressed by the other screenshots. ~Cromwell~