Good to see you back posting paul :) I've spent the last 2 days saying to people it's too early to be disappointed with Poser5 as everyone barring CL & the testers are newbies, but who really wants to listen to the truth or common sense? I know right away I'm going to be frustrated by Poser5, I'm not even close to being an expert with poser4, but it seems to me that some people are trying to perform miracles with Poser5 before they even try to learn the basic techniques. The way I see it Poser5 isn't just one step up from poser4, it's a whole staircase above it & people have to learn all over again. Rob