Thanks for the response people. I am not really too bothered about render times, well not too bothered.. what i am more concerned with is things likeslow downs when i pose the characters or even change background colors etc.. In p4 i find that the losres daz dragon cause my system probs, and if i over stack vicy with props then causes probs.. all i really need is an upgrade which allows the program to move faster pre rendering.. or does poser move slow anyhow.. or vene do i have too much stuff in poser anyway.. its around 3.0gb regards smooh