Mr. Cooper. For the sake of the families of the staff at Curious Labs, those who depend on the salaries for the food on their table I hope it turns around. I hope you really do fix Poser 5 because you didn't fix Poser 4 and as is apparent the two are inseperable except for the third party modules you've included. So, I do wish you luck and success though I have a feeling you're in for an uphill fight. Meanwhile following multiple threads on two forums I've made my decision. I have already decided on the alternative software that I am going to buy and I have made that decision based on industry and user reports. For what it's worth I'm sorry to take my business elsewhere but you never made a lot out of me anyway, except in free support during a couple dark moments. I know I'm not alone in this decision and that hurts your company because every dollar lost is gone for good. My money is limited even allowing that I'm a very tight fisted SOB anyway. And while I do have brand loyalty I'm not blindly loyal. I change brands when I perceive that something is broken, and perhaps strangely I am prepared to pay more. You wanted Poser 5 to be the next step up into the Professional end user market. That much is painfully evident and I can understand the desire for that move. The pricing is about right for a Maya/Softimage plug-in and the module styling of Poser 5 is suited to that manner of production - isolating processes to simplify and speed them - but, industry users don't have time or any desire to frag around with something that costs them money in lost production man-hours. You must have known this, you couldn't have NOT known it. I use Windows, windows in many ways is broken. I put up with that because it's an OS that I can use and is, in the current version, extremely stable. I have removed, instantly, other software that is "buggy". My local games store will attest to that as I've returned many games that are so riddled with bugs they're more an ant's nest than a piece of software. Staples will also attest to my reticence in using broken applications. I don't have the time or patience to bugger around and any store manager that tells me "it'll get fixed in a few weeks/months" will have me writing to his area manager and requesting he be instructed in reality. I don't expect software to work perfectly out of the box but neither do I expect to be driven to distraction by it. So, for what it's worth. Curious Labs still have a dedicated core of fans. Fans who will take anything regardless, because you spend the time here to talk to them. That's good PR and good business. There's a second core of supporters who have wavered but will purchase anyway based on the grounds that you'll "fix it" - even allowing for your history of failing to do that. There's another circle of users outside of that one, and those are the ones you're losing. The lurkers and fussy gits, those who don't want to fight with something to achieve what they want. Those who are sick of starting again and again because something has crashed and trashed the file they were using. Those who quite frankly do not feel they owe you any loyalty because you and your staff like to play in the forums. I have three pieces of software that I use almost continually. Rhino, Bryce and Paint Shop. Neither crash, lock up or cause me as much grief as Poser 4. Trust me, you really don't want to hear some of the things I've had to say about that software. I use(d) Poser because it was quick, simple and easy to use. There used to be vast amounts of free content which was a big bonus to me. But, quite frankly I'm sick to death of it. I'm utterly exhausted with screwing about with Poser's foibles, of suffering lock ups, vanishing content, rsr corruption, pz3 corruption, renders that don't, dials that lock, cursors that disappear a workspace that becomes non-responsive causing a three finger salute to kill poser, and a slew of other problems many related to that damn memory hole - the same one that's probably in Poser 5, the one you didn't fix. So really, what loyalty do I owe you? In all honesty, none. Not being rude but you are in the business to make software and money. I am in the business to have an easy time of my life and have fun relaxing working in CGI - this is just FUN for me, not work, not business, not pretending it pays for my lifestyle, just FUN. And I'm prepared to pay for that fun. I've payed thousands of UKP for my fun over the years. Poser just isn't fun anymore, it hasn't been for nearly two years but I stuck with it and these forums, and as a by-product lent my support to you and others when I felt I should. Because I believed that Poser 5 would be done properly. You know, the funny thing is, if you'd actually taken the time to release a patch for Poser 4 to fix the memory leak and a couple other problems I might just have stuck with you because I would have seen that as a gesture to the customers for their patience and support. shrug My lost dollars aren't much in the big scheme of things, but those silent ones who are also looking elsewhere for their cgi fix are significant. THEY are the ones you have to convince, not me, not the minority of drooling fans or rabid supporters who slap you on the back no matter what you say and do - but the larger, silent majority. They ARE significant. Daz are producing something now. Well, woopdee fraggin' doo. Sorry, but I trust them with my computer about as much as I trust Curious Labs with it. So. Yes, my dollars are going to another company, the software is more expensive than Poser but it offers somewhat more. To be honest I find that rather sad because for all my bitches about Poser 4 I have had a whale of a time playing with it, producing models for it and chatting with the forum members. But frustration has only so much amusement value, and three years is a long time to put up with it when the "new toys, excellent updates and bolt on goodies" are, well... Broken. Good luck Mr. Cooper, to you and all the staff at Curious Labs. I believe you are going to need it. If you are still around in a year, maybe I'll stop by and congratulate you. You'll have earned congratulations and a stiff drink (which I'll pay for) if you survive this release of your software.