"Getting annoyed over watching friends get taken for a ride by cardsharks isn't wierd - it's perfectly understandable. And this isn't even poker - it's 3-Card Monte, and like Questor observed, ya'll are bein sharped." Hey IronBear, I've always imagined from your previous posts that you're a pretty cool guy, so I do appreciate the concern. And I really DO believe that you're looking out for us. But we ARE grown-ups (except, of course, for Legume ;-) and it's OUR money we're spending, not yours. You don't have to worry about us. We'll be fine. Already, I'm noticing that as the complaining dies down, people are starting to post pictures, ask questions and make discoveries with P5. In other words, things are getting back to normal. Look at some of the newer threads. There really is some fun being had. I'M having fun with it. The thing I like most is that P5 continues the fine tradition of trying to make a funky little program do things it was never supposed to do. Speaking of which, there's this guy who's making an entire film using Ray Dream Studio 5, a defunct program (go to "www.rustboy.com" to see the amazing results). He doesn't want to upgrade to Carrara or anything else. Part of the challenge for him is using one imperfect package and pushing it to its limits. To my thinking, that's always been the deal with Poser, too. That's why I was drawn to Poser and to this forum in the first place. All the other high-end packages just give me a headache. Who needs perfection? --jjsemp