yeah then I'll stop nagging you about when it's going to arrive ;) I've been reading up a bit more on the materials room & it really does remind me of the Bryce Materials Lab, not the layout but a lot of what it does is similar, the materials part of poser4 is going to seem so primitive once people get the hang of it in poser5. I'm really looking forward to being able to animate textures in poser at last :) Rob