Hi Guys. Thanks also Sparkle and Tirjasdyn for the compliments on the hair and stuff. Sorry to Spit and jackson if I gave the impression that you will never want to use other apps, what I meant was you will not necessarily need to export...of course you may want to export to other apps because that is the way you get the best artwork for your taste. Now from what I can gather the co operation between Clabs and Corel and others for the purposes of interaction between Poser and other apps like Vue and Bryce is not that great (at present anyway). I dont really know why, but I suspect that its to do with money demands and so on. Its a bit of a bummer, but there are ways around it and one way is to make Poser much more powerful and capable of doing environments...I am pretty sure CLabs are interested in this and it would probably be easier for them to do this than for corel to put a posing facility in Bryce. Bottom line is people will work how they prefer, but over time things change and at least having a renderer like the Firefly renderer is a big step in the right direction. Personally I would like it to be a lot faster and have better anti aliasing and also Global Illumination and perhaps caustics as well...but hopefully in the future sometime. In the music world there are similair problems with competing companies...recently I upgraded to Emagics Logic 5 and spent quite a lot of money only to be told a couple of months later that they were bought out by Apple and will no longer be supporting PC users at all so I lost all my money on it. Of course there was a huge backlash as they have a huge PC user base, but could we do...not a lot. At least CLabs are taking responsibility for Poser and stomping the bugs and are listening to the user base...I can tell you that is pretty rare. Thats basically why I have some faith that despite the fact that Poser 5 needs a patch, Clabs will come good with that and they are headed in the right direction with the upgrade. Its hard sometimes to see the long term vision of these companies but at least they seem to have one. Cheers Harvey