OH yes that is the look....and yes I diddled with the displacement in a well I wonder what will happen if I do this...and on the little view screen nothing different but then on the render it was all goofy....thanks I have to read more about these wonderful new aspects....I knew it was something I did but just could not figure out what....and I did a choose all nodes and it turned my poor figure into a big bulbus mass halfway triangulated and all bumply rumply....time to play some more...but I really think this program will open up some new horizons with poser....it just takes a minute to learn stuff....