heheh..you DO hate yourself! ..modeling in ACAD..oh my! I used to use ACAD for 3D Studio meshes...mostly architectural things and had same troubles. Some things could be done so easily with solids, but near impossible with surfaces. I believe acad converts solids to surfaces when exporting...why it seems to work now. But, with the advent of Max, I no longer model in ACAD...what a relief!! ehhe