"To me, and I think a LOT of people realize (or are realizing) just this ... P5 appears to be the same old Poser with some (albeit neato) 3rd party apps slapped on top of a decrepit interface." I said pretty much the same thing shortly before P5 shipped. Only, at that time I didn't know the additional features were licensed from other companies. I think most people are upset because of built-up expectations followed by a huge let down. But it's not our fault our expectaions were what they were...CL has been making promises for over a year and they didn't come through. The promise of a "brand new program," "written from scratch." Obviously, P5 has not been written "from the ground up." It's got the same OLD interface with its inherent problems and the same OLD core. It's even got some of the same OLD bugs. That's another broken promise: "oh, it'll be fixed in Poser 5." And, I'm sorry, but the "all new software has bugs" excuse doesn't wash with me for two reasons: 1) No, not like this they don't. 2) That was CL's big excuse for taking so long, remember? They were taking their time to "do it right." And people in this forum kept saying, "don't rush them, let them take their time." So they took their time and look what we have. And ron: yes, you can force a crash on software. But you know that's not what we're talking about here. Software shouldn't crash when you're using it as it's supposed to be used. And, yes, even following the manual. These lame, unrealistic excuses aren't going to help make Poser any better. Kupa said he was going to post something about what it took to get P5 out the door. I wish he'd hurry. I would sure like to know what took three years since most of the new stuff wasn't done by CL and the core of P5 is still P4. So what took three years?