Jeff I was pretty sure the forum was for expressing people's thoughts on issues relating to Poser. Perhaps you'd care to express why you feel someone posting their unhappiness about the program is somehow invalid? Or deserving a derogatory remark of referring to them as "whiners". And if you don't need to know why, then why bother reading this thread? No one's forcing anyone to read, respond, or think what they don't want to.