Ron The advantages of for CL of implementing the particular rendering engine technology (reyes) was that it is that on the performance/speed graph it stands head and shoulder above any other other rendering method, which is why it its become an industry standard over the last 15 years. The problem is that by all accounts they've made a dud implementation, and furthermore had it finished so late in the day that there little or no time to optimise or debug it. You want proof of what it can do, go and rent a Pixar movie, or Final Fantasy, or for that matter any other 3D animated feature that has been released in the last decade. All of them have used the Reyes rendering technique. BTW, regardless of the problems, and my criticism, I still intend to use P5 and to do what ever little I can to support it, simply because I am now extremely worried about the future of Poser. Since P5 initial announcement, CL has been stumbling from one PR disaster to another, and along with the big hit in pricing at the outset, I can only presume that their margins are now extremely thin. CL needed a successful product launch to ensure their future and regardless of what positive things can be found to say about the program, the general noise must be putting a hell of a lot of people off taking the risk of upgrading. Those people on this forum who think they are doing CL a favour by saying "If you don't like it don't buy it!" are probably doing the most harm. People are frustrated and disappointed, often for good reason. The best thing for CL (and Poser) is that the frustrations and disappointments are addressed in a positive, constructive way, at least for the benefit of those many people who are lurking out there trying to decide whether to go for it. Bill