I get the idea that you're looking to bitch, and that's ok. But the fact is, this software is a godsend. First of all, the interface is XML and SKINNABLE. Gee whiz, captain, that means we can rewrite the interface to suit our needs, and even optimize it if we want... hrm... maybe they should have marketed on that. The lighting's simplistic, and lacks in some respects, but Poser users don't want Mental Ray lighting capabilities. Hell, people bitch about the speed now ( and it's still vastly faster than Bryce, Mental Ray, et. al. ), how do you think they'd feel waiting around for GI? "NEW! Nodal Shaders -- But your on your own as to how they work." Yeah... well... umm... learning how things work is part of being an artist and animator. Bitching about something being too deep and hard to learn won't gain you points in my book. I'm sliding right into the materials set up, and we already have a few artists producing brilliant works with them after only a few days... Feel free to rant, bitch, moan, and exclaim. I don't care. But, I'm sorry, I paid a few grand for 3ds max with Mental Ray, so implying that you didn't get your money's worth is just limited perspective. Take a deep breath and calm down, and you'll see that I'm right on this. Three weeks ago, people were wandering around this forum going, "It's the greatest thing on earth!" and having religious experiences. They were taking photographs of Poser 5 going into their CD trays... WTF? You can't blame Curious Labs for not selling you Soft|Image. And the worst part is, through all the moaning now I see people putting images together that will soon be Final Fantasy Movie level quality, so I highly doubt that the software, for a few hundred bucks, is really the problem here. Paul