Tim, as for it shipping it with bugs, I just gotta say, if it didn't ship when it did, it never would. I'd much rather have a buggy app than no app at all. We've waited so long for this, for CL to crumble at this moment would have been horrible, and the wait would go on for another year, maybe two. I can respect Steve's honesty. With the issues with Avatar Lab and the long development cycle, I imagine that even now Curious Labs is not rock solid financially. Personally, I'd rather see them developing Poser 6 than to let it fall to Corel or Adobe. I'm not saying you can't get upset. I know there are probably a lot of things about the program that might frustrate you, but tearing down the forum walls in rage won't fix that. We have a lot of eductated people here who can teach each other. We have Python scripters who might be willing to attempt fixing the walk designer. We have options. As a community, it does us no good to tear at a product like wolves. It's fine to say you're unhappy, and I can respect that. I just hate to see you unwilling to approach these problems with an open mind and an open heart. It sets you well away from the community that will support you to no end. Paul