No need to apologise ssshaw, this is a confusing and difficult time for everyone. We are still waiting for a reply from Kupa to clarify and finalise the matter although he is up to eyes this week and he may be holding off until the CL lawyers give him advice on the P5 EULA in general. Without creating further controversy can I clarify my original question in a slightly different context, as there seems to be some general confusion in some of the threads both here and elsewhere. In P4 Zygote (subsequently Daz), licensed the figures to Metacreations (subsequently CL). We were allowed to create derivative figures for free or for sale so long as the new products were encoded to the P4 figures in P4 so that they could only be used by people who owned P4 and not by the 3D market in general. Without this right figures like Eve - with new higher res hip geometry by Torino - could not have ever been created for and distributed to the community. The importance and benefit of this policy resulted ultimately in the development of the Millenium figures by Daz as we know them. A long time ago, when Victoria 1 was being launched, Chad Smith (Daz) openly stated in these forums that Daz were strongly influenced by Torino's work which not only added new geometry to Posette but grouped the figure in the way that all millennium figures (Mike, Vicky and Steph) subsequently adopted (I started that infamous thread at the time and I still have a copy of it ;0) !). This superb experimental work by Torino and his largesse in giving it to the community would not have been possible without the freedom to create and distribute derivative meshes. That freedom is a very important right and commodity to the Poser user community, it has resulted in major advancement in figure creation and thus clarification of the continuation of that right and policy in P5 is an item of great importance. Others and I feel very strongly about this right and I intend to pursue it until I get clear and comprehensive answers for the benefit of all. In the thread, linked to above, Dan Farr, when asked about Dazs views on distribution (for free or for sale) of derivative figures based on the Judy and Don meshes so long as they are encoded to Judy and Don, said: Yes, you are correct. Doing something like you suggested creates no problems as far as DAZ is concerned. You still may want to talk with Kupa to make sure that they are o.k. with it as well. That is great as it means Daz are sticking to the original policy. Don and Judy are based on the P4 figures owned by Daz. Don and Judy are in fact derivatives created from those figures by Runtime DNA for CL. Now Kupa when asked about the policy stated: The same rights you have with the licensed meshes in Poser 4 exists with Don and Judy in Poser 5. The license agreement is between Metacreations and their successor (Curious Labs) and Zygote and their successor (DAZ). It's wouldn't be appropriate for me to disclose the full detail of license. But the license does specifically allow users to create derivatives. Bottomline, none of the licensing of this content has changed, and as such you are able to use and distribute the content the same way you were in Poser 4. On the face of it, it would seem that the policy (from CLs point of view) continues as regards Don and Judy. However, when I pursued the question further as regards selling or distributing a high-res mesh derived from Judy with extra detailing geometry included in the mesh, Kupa replied: That's a difficult question to answer. Remember the various statements and position on the hands of the Amy character? While it didn't create significant issues for us at CL, it became an issue elsewhere. The above reply has me worried. The Amy issue is not really relevant, as Amy was a new figure being sold to Poser and non-Poser users which had Posettes hands included in the mesh. Had Amy been encoded to the P4 Female it could have been sold with no problem at all, as it would have fallen under the derivative concession. Kupa also said he did not want to disclose the details of the licence agreement between CL and Daz. No problem there, however, Dan Farr said to Kupa in the thread that he would have no problem with Cl disclosing this. We have no concerns with you discussing or explaining any of the terms of the Meta-Zygote agreement publicly to help explain proper usage of the models. I think that there are more people interested in this topic than just Storm. I would suggest that section 3.2 has a very clear definition of the proper usage. It might be an idea for Daz and CL to publish this and for CL to clarify the situation as regards the Don and Judy derivatives. What worries me is that it appears that there is some remaining doubt about CLs position on free and commercial distribution of derivatives of the Don and Judy figures. One could take Kupas initial statement of the situation as the final one, but his second statement seems to suggest it is not. This needs to be cleared up and clarified so that all of us can proceed without worry in our usage of the P5 figures. Sorry for the long long reply but it is an important issue in my view Regards STORM