yes, but what of those who basically use presets, with not even enough care to uncross vicki's eyes? what i see are quite a few folks who use the newest market characters, lights, poses, textures, backgrounds, etc....and that's it. they expect these "tools" to be doing the creating for them. i mentioned in my first post....an interesting pov, some dramatic lighting can get some respect from me. there are many who upload 3 in one day...and, they all look just like the "stock" products that can be purchased....and positioned smack dab in the middle of a huge render of a purchased background. i think this may kind of be what tisa is talking about...at least in part.