Ironman - You Da Man: "Uh yeah... but this is VERSION 5. Says so on the box." I like that way of "framing" the situation. No excuse for version 5 to be so bad. I worry that CL has just shot themselves... somewhere worse than "in the foot". "5" looks like a feature-set that would really broaden their market, IF they can make a working version. Much as I personally hope CL pulls through this, I pray NEW customers don't buy this release until CL comes out with one heck of a patch! They would likely get bogged down in all the fancy, barely working features, and give up on the whole scene :( So, I reiterate as I have elsewhere "rant away". But why act like storm troopers have come into your house and done bad things to people you love? And why show NO RESPECT to what appear to be decent, hard-working people, who I believe are doing the best they know how?