Yeah Demoman, sucks to keep meeting like this, but it could be worse, eh? ;] ", what do the ranters hope to accomplish?" Complex question possibly, with as many answers as there are people involved. Soo... I'm going to shrug and just approach it from my POV. I don't have a major interest vested here. The company I work for isn't going to be involved with Content Paradise, so as long as CL doesn't try to enforce any restrictions of content distribution, that's a non-issue for me. CP doesn't affect me much either way. Renderosity's affliation with CP does potentialy affect me as a merchant here, as long as I'm a merchant here, but I'm willing to take a "wait and see" attitude on what those ramifications will be. The EULA provisions and ramifications they may have DO have an active, and possibly adverse effect on any merchnats involved in content distribution, and by extension, any brokerages involved in that. Those ramifications are being hotly debated at PoserPro's right now, so I won't rehash that 850+ post thread here. I will say that it is a concern to me, because of a number of implications... Main one being that having followed this business across numerous threas at multiple sites going back to before the CL "Amnesty" brouhaha, and the first announcements of their inline store, through the various DAZ3D EULA debates etc... the entire EULA controversy, the Face Room controversy/negotiations, Content Parasites, er... Paradise, et all looks to me like a knuckle duster between CuriousLabs and Daz3D over market share, and CL is using it's "we're your buddies, we're yer pals" connection with this particular online community to polarise supporters. I object to watching that. I object to seeing a site that I consider my online home - still, even though I no longer work here - used in what could effectively become a commercial concerns battle. I object to what I percieve as valid objections by customers of CL that just happen to not be glowing reviews of the latest release being discouraged by representatives of this site... probably because CL is a site affiliate and a major sponsor. I could be wrong on those perceptions, if so, no makey - it won't bruise my ego to be wrong, but I'll be damned if I won't call it as I see it based on what I see. On the actual program... I watched here, in this forum, as CL posted glowing previews of what the new software would incorporate, and all the improvements, over multiple threads, and basically used hype and hucksterism to whip up a frenzy for pre-orders - with the blessings of this site - when the odds [I think] were pretty damned good that they HAD to know weren't going to be delivered. And as they made claims over the course of three+ year to be delivering a redesigned program and new figures rather than what seems to be [based on user analysis] Poser 4 and Pro-Pack with modules leased from Size8 Software, SI FaceGen, and Pixels3D patched in. Not very well patched in, based on what a lot of these threads seem to be showing. Down here in Texas, we gots words for that. ;] Now, don't get me wrong, that's not a personal annoyance: I may have a need for P5 professionally - to test P5 content on if nothing else - and I can write the cost off as a business expense and not be out a fucking dime at the end of the year. What is a personal annoyance is watching people I consider friends get scammed into making pre-order purchases on something that's proving to be a dissapointment to them, and THEN watching them get told to "shut the fuck up about it". Again: I'm using the word "scammed" advidely based on my perceptions of the entire "California Dreaming" hype vs what these "rants" are showing. Anyone thinks that I should not get a bit annoyed over that... hey, your priveledge. Just don't get miffed when ya gets told to piss up a rope. So... Possibly these rants won't do a damned thing for what existing purchasers are experiencing. Wah - they're big boys and girls, as has been pointed out to me, I'm sure they'll live in the long run. They may not do a damned thing except create an awareness that new purchasers MAY just want to look real carefully at this before sending in their $179 or $349 to CuriousLabs, and make an informed decision on wether the so called "upgrade" is going to deliver their money's worth. And if they do that, and people make the "Buy/Not Buy" choice from informed decisions rather than pre-release hype and glowing reviews in the Rosity Rag, then the so called "rants" serve a useful purpose. This is what a comunity is supposed to do: act in the best interests of it's members, not in the best interests of it's software purveyors. If Renderosity takes it's mission statement seriously, then that' what I think they say they're supposed to be doing: promoting the best interests of their members, not supporting the best interest of their sponsors and affiliates. Heh - when you get in the position of affiliating with a company and a major software release, you get stuck between that rock and that hard place. And sometimes ground in it... ;] So... Curious Labs may not care to read less than glowing praise in their pet forums. Too damned bad. CL worshippers may not care for it. Ditto. But the people having the bad experiences have every damned bit as much right to discuss them here as the people having good experiences, without being made to feel pariahs or attacked for it. When you attack someone who feels they have a valid greivance, you may just be making an enemy out of someone who could have been your friend. The odds are pretty good also that somewheres in the middle between the bad experiences and the people having no problems is the reality of what the software can do. We won't see that reality if one side or the other is shouted down. Hope that somewheres in all that I touched on the question. grin

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell