"So... you hold Curious Labs to looser standards than you do other application developers? Why? Because they have a niche app that there's no equivalent to - so take what they deliver? Because the company execs "buddy up" to people in the forums? Er... what's that got to do with it?" To be honest, I don't take looser standards for CL than with any other company (and yeah, I know it wasn't pointed at me :) ). It's just that you have a huge pile of folks who are quite used to Poser 4, and now they gotta unlearn some things, and they have to learn others. The problem may not be bugs per se, but I suspect that it's a bag of mistakes and screw-ups we all commit whilst still learning, but frustration + pride = 'we're calling it a bug!' I admit that some things, like the lack of undo levels and such contain out-of-the-way bugs (undo levels IMHO is pretty damned minor in the scheme of things; fugg sakes, UnrealEd was as stable as a cork in a hurricane and had only a rudimentary undo setup... that's why you saved successive builds.) Anyrate, these are indeed items that could've been addressed, and may be patched yet, who knows? But others, like the Walk Designer, turned out to be something that Tim is alone in experiencing, with numerous other animators flooding this very thread with helpful suggestions and reasons why it may have happened (turns out he left IK on, apparently.) The rest, and even you will have to admit this, is a big ol' gangbang of complaints + mob mentality, fostered by the frustration of having to learn how to use this new thing. Like I said earlier... I dunno what P5 is like yet, because mine hasn't showed up yet (should be here today or tomorrow.) I'll figure oit out for sure, but I'm not going to come stomping onto the fora shouting "Poser 5 SUCKS!" every time I come across a stumbling block. As per CL? Shit, man - I agree with you 100% there. If CL can't take a little criticism, fugg 'em, that's their problem. If Poser goes under, something else will certainly take their place. In the big scheme of things, machts nichts. It's just that things are getting to be like one gigantic pity party in here, and since everyone is still learning this critter, there's no counterbalance to it. That is what winds up hurts a lot more than CL's rep in the end. /P PS: I honestly don't care anymore what Bill Gates does with his OS... After XP and with the inclusion of the stealth EULAs that came with the latest Service Packs allowing MS control over what's on your machine (DRM ferinstance), I refuse to use anything newer than Win2k.