"I cannot possibly explain to anyone who has not spoken to Steve how much charisma and genuine caring he brings with him to a conversation" This a key element to any con man's success. I am not saying Kupa's a con man! I'm merely pointing out that, if he was, you wouldn't know it. "If you search this forum, you will discover that CLers, including kupa, weren't taking paychecks" Hmmm... could be true; could be part of the con. Eowyn is 100% correct. ALL software publishers have to deal with the fact that PCs are put together buy different manufacturers' parts and that every configuration is different. I'm so tired of hearing these same excuses over and over again: 1) All new software is buggy. What do you expect? 2) The user is "inexperienced" and/or didn't read the dox. 3) PC's are so varied and convoluted. 4) P5 doesn't do what you want, so you're just whining. None of these are valid reasons for why P5 is what it is. They are lame excuses that can--and have been--explained away. Yet the loyalists choose to ignore the truth and keep using these excuses. Neither side is gonna give an inch, so let's quit arguing and pray the patch fixes the major issues.