Wow! Thanks all! Eowyn, queri, maxarcher, praxis, xoxonostle, pdxjims, ssshaw,narsil, restif, and anyone I missed. I did not even know there was an AmyMarie-better do a search under SteffyZZ! I am most interested in realistic renders- the greenish tinge you mention would be easy to fix in Photoshop. Gaia seems a bit more "neutral" do to the absence of freckles. Catherina Prezak (cant remember the new name) has a Free female face test texture out that is pretty amazing-I've been playing with that with Blackheart's Ki, and Selene bump maps (currently my most lifelike), I will have to take the plunge and get Yuma and Gaia. Hmmn, now I am wondering if I could adapt them to work with Katia (Attractive morph character from Dcort's Dina). So far she renders as more "real" than V2 WITH Realeyes1.5 in Lightwave Radiosity-but her default texture is a little bland-looks like a real person with heavy facial coverage. I will see if I can remember my OLD website URL so I can post the render.... Eric