Appreciated your comments, Penguinisto. I haven't checked 'Rotica in a long time, sounds like it's time to go back and hunt down the artful stuff. This thread is changing my mind. At the Poser newsgroup I feel lucky if three people respond. 100 hits is considered low at Rosity? Hm, maybe it's time to start posting to my empty Rosity gallery. I've only been rendering for about 7 months but am gaining some confidence. The excellent work of the more talented inspires me to aspire. I just wish there were 100 hours in a day so I could devote more time to improving! Anthony, checked your stuff. Amazing! Still working with ideas...