cyber, you did some research, as opposed to my off the cuff podium speech. Some observations that match your numbers ... 2. The relinquishing of rights might well be an illegal term of the contract. Depends on the facts. One thing to remember is that there are gov't laws and party laws. Party laws are reflected in contractual arrangements. If the contract limits Constitutional rights or force a violation of a law, its not ok. Outside of that, parties are free to write their own law (contract) which is often referred to as a face to face negotiation. Adheshion is not face to face. And I didn't shake Bill G's hand when I bought Win OS. 3. I agree. 4. Most is sold. As I said, I know of one that doesn't fall into this category. 5. Definitely agree. 6. Adhesion contracts can be valid as long as they are not illegal or oversophisticated. UCC 2 deals with merchants. End users are not merchants. So this is a difference between adobe and our gripes. The adobe case is between merchants. Our gripe on the EULA is, in part, between a merchant and a non merchant. The UCC has specific distinctions between the two. Market place people may well be treated as merchants. Hobbyists are definitely not merchants. Also, UCC 2-207 is often referred to as part of the "battle of the forms" where each merchant has a form with fine print on it that doesn't match a face to face negotiation. When merchant A has a form for a purchase order that spells out certain terms, and merchant B has an invoice that spells out different terms (cuz one bought from office max and the other bought the forms from office depot - or wrote their own), a battle can ensue as to what the contract offer/acceptance really is. The UCC seeks to resolve that. This said, the UCC is only the law when in Federal Court. When in State court, the state law applies and not all states have adopted the UCC. Some have adopted only parts of the UCC. So, it depends on what jurisdiction the suit is in to resolve the applicable controlling rules. 7. Agreed, and this is a public policy issue as well as an illegality issue. 8-9 I have long since believed this. All this aside, it may cost big bucks to defend against a suit. Granted the defendant may be entitled to attorney fees if they win, they will likely not find a lawyer who takes this on a contingency. So many roll over and settle as a sound business decision instead of fighting. That's an unfortunate side effect that lets the big guy win even when wrong. Well done, Cyber. ******************************** My Disclaimer: The views of this Poser Dork do not necessarily reflect the views of this station or its political stand.