SamTherapy, At the present I've only got P4 so I have to go from that perspective. there may be more advanced techniques in P5. you could check out transmapping. the best tuts are about hair, but you could probably convert the information to your flame. Kosaburo's site has a tutorial on transmapped hair. digitalbabes2 or something like that. if you have trouble finding it IM me and I'll look up the url for you. also search under Hein's light in the tutorials section at the top of the Renderosity page. Also Anton has been revealing some of the techniques he uses lately. search poser forum under Pheonixrising. good rendering, - TJ