Hmmmm, I don't think I like where this is going. This thread pretty well sums up a growing trend with Poser I'm less and less happy with, I'm going to call it the "Who's Render is it anyway" trend. This mostly has been discussed in reference to non-commercial licensing of free stuff, and I can support that, after all, it free. But this thread is apparently extending it to the content that comes with Poser. Now, I can understand not distributing actual objects or other Intellectual Property, such as the actual mesh or morphs for Don and Judy et. al., but having to invoke fair use doctrine to sell your own renders? To me, this borders on rendering (sorry) Poser useless as a professional tool. Are we supposed to keep a record of what percentages of pre-made content we use with every render? Must we then go to court to establish whether our render indeed belongs to us? Isn't a major selling point behind Poser the content that comes with it, or can easily be obtained? Now, I consider myself more of an illustrator than an artist, and am about as commercially savvy as a feral rock, but I have sold a print of my art before, back in my Amiga days, and the thing is, had I needed to get permission from the software makers involved, I would have lost the sale, proceeds of which were hugely helpful at that period in time. Curious Labs maintains that render a Poser figure from multiple angles and selling the resultant renders are competition for Poser (why buy Poser when you can just buy some prerendered images of Posed figures? However, isn't Poser itself (at least it started out that way) an attempt to bypass needing a live model. Does not Poser compete with these live models, why pay a model, when you can get models with Poser than can be posed in any position, at your convenience, with out the cost and hassle of obtaining and dealing with real models. Moreoever, as Poser has grown, adding more complex rendering and animation capabilities, does this not compete with 2D software? Why draw each model and pose by hand, carefully rendering the form, the lighting and shadows, when Poser does all that for you? Should Adobe proscribe selling textures for use with Poser, because then you would not need to own Photoshop? Where do draw the line? Regards- Lemurtek