I love the idea of the large pack-- depends on the download though-- 22M starts getting very iffy and then I have to add another $14 for a CD burn, ouch. That black set just hums, so does the first white one. Nobody's done coppertones yet in Sci-fi. Both in the reddish and the verdigris. Lourdes came close in Outlander with his wonderfully alien metal corrosions. I'm reading Red Mars right now, and copper would just pop in a render. Emily