sittingblue: That's ok I think I can find a cheaper torus. Besides you can't export it out of Bryce anyway. I think there getting at you can actually change it's cross sectional area in Bryce. I'm rendering so I cannot check right now if this is the case in Vue. Was one of my wishes for Vue 5. Not just for that primitive though I would like that kind of control for all meshes. Meaning you can change it from a inner tube to a holla hoop shape without any difference in diameter.