Good heavens this thread ran on didn't it! Sorry not to have come back to reply to postings. Yes, I do feel for my friends who feel they've been ripped off, but at the time the red mist was descending. When P5 was first released Americans had the first try, we Europeans had to wait on the sidelines hoping for some tid-bits to drop our way. Remember that time, it wasn't all that long ago. The impression I got was that the program just didn't work and it does! It's been said that there's nothing for animators well, I've just spent most of today playing with the cloth room, I've successfully converted old P4 stuff into useable clothes in P5, made several useful animations that involve many interactions that would have taken days to do in P4, made and styled hair, perfected reflections, and so on... What surprised and disappointed me was the American reaction, one of the most memorable was a virtual illiterate criticising Anthony's manual. Up until now we've always given the benefit of the doubt for appalling English to those who we thought were not English speakers. So, the standards of education aren't all that high over there then? Some of the criticism has been constructive but the majority, and it's been mostly Americans, the majority has been vitriolic, destructive, downright cruel and incredibly badly spelt. If you guys, living as you do in the wealthiest country on the planet can go to those sort of lengths over a few quid and a piece of software no wonder you have guns and state execution. I've been labouring over the misconception that America positively revelled in free enterprise and that small business can thrive in an environment conducive to it. Seems I'm wrong, seems the American dream is, well let's be kind and just say it's gone back to sleep....