Hrmm.. not sure about "one person", although it's possible. I've seen quite a few of them... I do tend to lean towards the "a small group of people". I hope so anyway. Gods help us if it's more than a small group, we're screwed. ;] Greybro, LSM, and a number of people hit a chord with me... I picked on Greybro's to quote because it happened to be under the cursor: "all claim to draw their sole income from Poser. Get real people." That's the thing that bugs me... I agree with whoever said this: you can see the people like Syyd, Colm, and a number of the Daz merchants who are doing this professionally as making a bit more. One would hope anyway - a site like RDNA is horribly expensive to run. They'd better be making a profit... Me... I'm going to go out on a limb here: I suspect that I and my partners do pretty nice work. It sells reasonably well, and we get compliments. But hey - On a good month, my sales, and other professional work within this community will pay my internet bill and buy a few items with instore credit. A bad month - it's a couple of cartons of ciggarettes... To be honest, I don't work hard enough at it to expect to make a lot of sales. Not nearly prolific enough. Where I make money with poser and other apps is when I sell a framed print to a client, or an illustration to a magazine or other buyer. That's decent bucks. One framed one off print can equal several months worth of marketplace income for me. shrug The fee from a single high end workstation out of my shop can equal a half a years worth of poser sales or more. The marketplace is supplemental income - it helps keep my two cats in the style they wish I'd let them become accustomed too. ;] It wouldn't occur to me to blast say, Schlabber for lack of sales. My mind doesn't work that way. If my sales are down, it's time to sell another print, or build a few more worstations or gaming rigs, or write an article for publication - not find someone to blame for it. Sorry schlabber, I don't think you can take the blame for wrecking the pose market. What it does do, speaking as someone who markets poses, is make a need to offer something a bit unique. But good stuff will sell, even if there's a lot out there. What you manage to do is push me to work a bit harder at it, and work harder at designing something someone will want to part with their beer money for. ;]

So sad there are such vile people in the world. I'd love to know who these people / person is just to see what they are selling (or not selling ;) Its hard to imagine that someone can be so small minded, vindictive, malicious, selfish, and self centered. I am someone who makes a certain amount of income off selling poser models, but as many have stated above, I can't maintain totally on those sales alone. It is icing on the cake, and something I love to do. Unlike the creep(s) above I heartily support freestuff. Its a wonderful thing for new and continuing users of Poser and its a great thing for creators to be able to give back to the community that has provided so much! I've been awfully wrapped up and haven't made anything for free recently, but I'll find some time now!!! Any requests? Email me. Hugs to Ironbear, Questor, Blaze and all the others who support them and the ideals of what this community really is. Wynter aka Catherine Todd Daz Products: Period Gown Period Clothing for him MW Versatile Long Gown and Overdress

Wow - I never even knew that freestuff people were flamed like this. Sometimes I wish it were back to the old days, when the "Free Stuff" was titled "Fun Stuff" . All we had was freebies. Don't give up freebie people! Your awsome!

...and a complete shitstorm ensues. IB, I'm with you, 'mano. With you enough that a certain item I was contemplating for sale will now go up for free... I've been piddling with this sky scooter thingy enough; time to put 'er up! (GNU GPL, of course.) Anyone who complains about vendors starving from sales lost to free stuff can kiss my ass, period. Come to think of it, Free Stuff has been drying out lately... I think it needs a little juice. Here's a challenge - how many vendors out there are willing to make stand-alone freebies, stuff that doesn't require the purchase of anything besides Poser? That is how we'll thin down who "anonymous" really is... /P

note: my english isnt that good ... but I hope you can understand what I mean For all people who blame against freestuff: I remember a time about 4 or 5 years ago ... no Renderosity, no DAZ ( ok ... we have had Zygote) no Marketplace ... only a few people who started a forum for Poser. Everything they have made was freestuff ... I remember great artists like Paul Hafeli, Anton Kisiel and so much more people who give away their HighQuality works for free and shared their knowleges. We all have had a real good time :) I agree with JOE LE GECKO ... where is my old Renderosity? Thats the reason why I give away all my stuff for free, high quality or low quality, no matter ( ok ok ... I have one item for sale ... but it dont sells very good so I think my stuff isnt High Quality ... heheh). I feel great when I see people using my stuff to make great images. I feel proud when I can help people to make their own stff. I feel great when other people help me to improve my skills to make better stuff. We have a great community here with great freestuff so please keep it alive. For all peaople who blame against freestuff because the dont make enough money to get their bills payed... go and find a Job! just my 2 cents Chris

I'M TOTALLY SHOCKED!!!!! I simply can't believe people like this can exist..... And surely they are the people that push online stores to take down other people's work only because a pixel is similar to one of their products.... The god dollar strikes again.... :-(

You know....Just to piss Mr. Anonymouse off even more, I'm going to make some really awsome freebies. We'll see how many e-mails I get. Muhahahaha!

Heya - I DID get everyone's mind off of Poser 5 for a bit. snicker

Oops. sorry, one too many things on there. The Camping Kit (bottom right) is already available in 3D Arena freestuff. My bad.

CuntKiller, Anonymous, SickOfFreeStuff ... Well, obviously they need a little more imagination and respect for the other people.

WOW ... Questor, thats amazing stuff ... if you need some free disk space and bandwidth I can see what I can do for you. Just email me at c.froehlich@gmx.de . heheh Ironbear ... I totally argee with you :) Chris

OMG.. I can't believe some assholes.... Sigh I can believe it don't want to.. Questor your stuff is fantastic and I have the files.. Just.. have to find a scene to use things. If VENDORS are getting pissed off because of this.. then those "Vendors" need to pull their heads out of their asses and go look for real jobs. Free stuff was first. Then came the market place. Not the other way around

Does my Land Dragon count? I seem to have made a few friends with him...

Ooooh! Sniper rifles and an AutoMag! Yes please! :) later jb

The freestuff providers are amazing. I've had my gripes about freestuff offered as non-commercial but that's my own issue. Still, freestuff is the best feature around. As for the marketplace, I've seen some pretty lame crap for $10 in the market that probably wouldn't even be a good freestuff item. I personally think there should be a minimum requirement for market place items. Some kind of criteria like skin textures must be of x size and must have x mat settings or models must be poser ready of they claim they are and must have complete texture sets. One thing I'm surprised no one has done is come up with a standard texture set so others could make objects based on that set and so a customer would by one texture set and as many models as they want. The model would simply say its compatible with the John Doe texture set so the model doesn't have to provide textures. The Texture set could be in packs like a city scene set (brick patterns, concrete, bumps), outdoor set (trees, backdrops), indoor set (walls, tiles, trim, wood) etc. Someone who makes a model simply maps their model to the set then advertises it as set X compatible. Lets face it, concrete is concrete. Sure you may want a different look so you personally replace a texture here and there, but for the most part, common objects will have common texture attributes. Walls will have repeating wall textures. I can't even count the number of textures I have that all look about the same layout wise and would save a ton of space if the objects all referenced the same texture. Someone in freestuff did this with hair textures a while back and made a cool set of generic blonde, brown, black, red hair textures that others use as their textures for their hair models. They simply map the model to that hair texture.

Valandar - your dragon is the only one I have and use (I, umm, ripped his wings off and use them on my faeries :) So yeah, I believe it would count indeed :) Questor - I only have one question: What username and password would you like on my freebie server? :) (in all seriousness, that's the first halfway comprehensive accounting of firearms in Poser that I've seen in a loooooong time, and I have a small but slowly growing collection of historical RL firearms.) I really don't feel qualified to answer your question myself, but maybe we ought to put it up for a vote in its own thread. I'll have the sky-scooter (along with an additional texture donated by VirtualSite) packed and uploaded tonight, when I can get out from behind the school proxy. The accessories (missiles and pylons are already done) I can either post, or someone can add to 'em, no restrictions. /P

Great Idea Penguinisto, I don't have the skills to model something from scratch (for now) but surely one of my current projects i'm making for sell will go out as totally free... Hope a lot of merchants will approve your great idea ;-)

godseth - it doesn't have to be a model... background images, textures and morphs for Posette/Dork/Judy/Don (or Vicky, since more than enough people have that), or it can be light sets, poses... let your imagination fly. /P

::You know....Just to piss Mr. Anonymouse off even more, I'm going to make some really awsome freebies. We'll see how many e-mails I get. Muhahahaha! :: LOL!!!

::Heya - I DID get everyone's mind off of Poser 5 for a bit. snicker :: Not to mention the beginning of another legendary long thread. ;)

Are you people all nuts???!!! Freestuff be de work a de devil I tell ya. Or maybe a stinko commie plot... or maybe not... they kinda passe dese days- mus be dat damned Sadam guy. And if you gonna tell me you innocent cuz you ain't done no freestuff den whazup with all dem free advice you givin in de forums, huh? Don ya know ya cud be chargin' fer dat info? Whaza madda, you don wan no cushy five week holiday in de Bahamas wit alla yur profits? An while we's at it les go nuke Renderosity. I mean really, whazup with all dis bullshit 'bout no subscriber fees? Idjits! Me... I gonna go cash in summa dem empty beer bottles an buy muhself sum bad, bad mojo frum muh local witchy doctur. Den I'm gonna take dat mojo an point it at DAZ bigtime! I means, really, jes who the hell they think they be wid all dat dere freebie a the week stuff? Bastids! - Jack Notice: by reading the above carefully considered and valuable notice you hereby agree to remit either the sum of one year's income or your first born child. Please contact the writer for details concerning the Swiss bank account to which you may remit your payment. This demand valid where prohibited by law. Note: Souls also acceptable as payment subject to prior evaluation.

gets a warm fuzzy every time he sees a render with his Land Dragon... Didja know that critter was the very first posable organic I ever made? Back on subject, I would think that if anyone would get hate mails like this it would be me... My Land Dragon competes directly with numerous dragons out there, even my own Dracos Titanicus. And it's free. And it has wings now. But all I ever get are nice e-mails, and an occasional note when the link is down.

This is the same attitude that caused all the nonsense over Micro$oft giving away IE for free. True, there was some alterior motive there but it seems that some people just don't want anything to be free.

Tired of scrolling. Why Iron Bear? Why? :) Have fun guys. THANKS TO ALL THE FREESTUFF PROVIDERS OUT THERE !!!! Q

I second quixote, here is a huge thanks to everyone who provides freestuff items. THANKS! I've got a small combat pose set I will try to get up on my site this evening. It goes good with some of questors guns. :)

Like MOST here, the freestuff was what originally attracted me to this site. I really appreciate the freestuff providers - they have made this hobby possible for me. I'm with you 100% IB, and Questor, too. Questor, your stuff is GREAT! As for the lentil-sized-brain JERKS who sent those emails, to HELL with them!

Geesh .. Get a life people that flame freestuff pople. And to anyone who has ever made freestuff .. THANK YOU! I can name all the people whose freestuff I have used, learned from and just had a great time with. but for all that have ever provided anything, thank you.

Hee, seems when I tried to post this before it was eaten. Trying again. ... Sadly, flames such as these are fairly common in any online community. I work for a subscription game and whenever we do a major new release, regardless if it's something positive or negative for the players involved, we receive hate email. It's the nature of the beast; no matter what you do, there are people who are going to dislike it or who just want to blindly lash out. Ironically, I was planning to avoid putting out free items because I was concerned about bandwidth issues. After reading this thread, I've changed my mind and decided to try and do some small projects for the express purpose of putting into the free area. I forget the author and the exact wording, but there's a quote -- "If you are called a genius by half the people and an idiot by the other half, remember that the truth is somewhere between." While I seriously doubt there's anything more than a small group or single individual responsible, it's still quite a good quote to remember if the name-calling brings you down (and vice versa, I suppose, if your ego is a bit unwieldy from compliments). ;) Erik "Kep"

... and verily the anon-a-loser vendor was violated vigorously and made to dine upon the heads of fish...

"Not all of us have the skills to churn stuff out like you do. So back off or fuck off and give those of us trying to live a break."

Echoing what IB had to say, if you don't have the skills to pay the bills, get better at what you do or quit... lamenting in your mediocrity and lashing out just makes you a petty, contemptible loser...

I don't know who the idiot is that sent that, but I hope people realize that even if it is a vendor (whether here or elsewhere) it doesn't reflect the attitudes of most vendors. I suspect that this person has a few low end products (low in quality, can't say about price) and they're upset about those items not selling. Tough! Reality Check: I've turned down $8 textures to pick up $25 textures because of the quality involved. If a commercial product is worth my money, I'll buy it. If there's a similar, free version available, I'll balance the reputation and past experiences with the vendor and the free stuff provider. There's certain vendors that I'll always take their commercial stuff over a free version done by someone else because I know their quality is that high. If I have free stuff from that merchant, I'm also a lot more likely to buy their products over an unknown person's free stuff. I've had vendors contact me to let me know about special deals, to give me free upgrades, or just to thank me for the purchase. I can't think of one vendor who's been rude. If I ever do find out who sent that, I'll never buy from them again. (Of course, I suspect it's someone with no talent who sent that, anyway.) One thing you can do, IB, is look at who got flamed and see if there is a commonality in their Free Stuff offerings, then see who has a commercial version available. It's not proof, and I wouldn't suggest posting the info as it could be wrong, but it would make for an interesting starting point. Sigh Remember the days when civility and friendly competition were the norm? If you'll excuse me, I really have to make some more Free Stuff now!

It sounds like all the messages were from the same person--same tone, overuse of the "F" word, and poor spelling. Just reading the first sentence of any one of those messages would tell me loud and clear that I'm dealing with a moron, so I wouldn't take any of it to heart. I would think anyone who is getting something for free would be a little more considerate especially when the artist has taken the time to create it and distribute it free of charge. I also can't imagine bashing someone for their art. And I have no pity for the bashers for not having jobs or losing business--their lack of intelligence and tact is probably what is holding them back--not another artist's ambition.

Now let me think. Do I shell out $25 for a texture map for Vickie? Or do I check out the free ones available first? Having been stung more than once with shoddy second rate highly expensive merchandise I reckon the decision is an easy one. The vendors who are bitching need to bear in mind that precious few poser artists make a living at it either. Markeyplace stuff really has to be something special to tempt me. A $25 bag of M&Ms please.

Sorry to hear this Ironbear, goodness knows you've helped me so much, in the Tech Support Forum, and with your awsome freebies! Some of them are spectacular! I think you've set a presedent for many to follow in the Free Stuf area. Thanks once again for all! = )

I hav'nt read this entire thread, but where are the Dangerous Curves freebies you had in the free stuff area? I have them archived, but I'm sure other Newbies would love to see them! = )

Love your firearm sets. I've been looking for a musket and some older rifles. Great to see them pending. Any plans for some even older ones? Flintlock, blunderbuss and Napoleonic war stuff is on my wishlist. I like the look of your buildings too.

I read the first couple of messages, and am still reading, but just wanted to comment on the initial post.... freestuff in other arenas are being attacked as well..flight sim addons, games adds, etc.... Its great to be able to make a few bucks selling stuff at different marketplaces, but there are no excuses for the attitude portrayed by those that sent the emails...more than likely, they learned their skills by reading and doing FREE tutorials provided by the very people they're bashing.... There would be little in the way of a Poser community if it wasn't the folks that make the free items, tutorials, tips and so forth. In those emails are the ISP addresses of the senders...deal with them.

Check yer mail. All is primed and ready. Please confirm. :) /P

Well, with 40+ items up at 3D Commune Freestuff, I have to say I've never had a nasty mail yet. I have had a lot of good comments in the Freestuff boxes (3D Commune allows you to comment on stuff you d/l), and I've also has nice mails from people. Oh well.... I suppose my stuff isn't good enough to compete with this clown who sent the mails. Hip-hip hoo-fucking-ray!! I started selling through DAZ a year ago and can second the points above. Anyone who thinks they can make a living selling poser stuff online needs their head looked at! It's pin money, nothing more. I do it because I want to be able to make things that people think are good enough to shell out their hard-earned cash for, plus, if it's a 3-month project, it gives me an incentive to finish it. But if it pays my monthly internet bill, I'm doing well. Questor is one of the many people who have helped me in chat rooms, working out problems and giving me advice, and I know he's always preferred to make his stuff available for free. Ironbear is another active, useful member of these communities. To see this kind of abuse against them is sickening. Incidentally, I don't think anyone has quite figured out the psychology of the creatures who send mails like this. As far as they're concerned, the point is not to send a mail that actually achieves anything, or makes any coherent argument. The point is to insult and abuse, while cramming in as many swearwords as possible. For them, it's the equivalent of jerking off. After they've sent it, they can fall into a post-coital stupor of self-righteousness, knowing that someone, somewhere is being shocked by the result. These are the same people who like to slap women and kids around or beat up homosexuals (as long as the odds are at least 6 -1). Hey, you know what? I can look at myself in the mirror without flinching. I wonder if these people can? mac

Sorry Penguinisto, I've had a long few days and decided to get an hour's snooze in. Consider conformation received, both here and email. And thank you. Now off to the drawing board to get something together that's half decent to look at. :)

No need to apologize - I just wanted to make sure the webmail thingy worked on my end :) If you need anything else, holler - but go to bed in the meanwhile and grab more Z's! /P

Hey Questor, next time you're gonna make a freebee of the fantasy type, I'd like to do textures for it to offer with it. hehe. I agree with what Ironbear has said. I don't do things on a large scale in the modeling department, but I make my freebees and free textures the best I can afford to with the time and growing skills that I have. I feel that what I give for free reflects on me as much, if not more, than what I sell. I pity some anonymous person who sends me a nasty gram, but I've not been out and about so much, I guess, to warrant some loser's attention, thank goodness, but I might be eventually. It saddens me that some people have the views expressed in the example emails that ironbear provided.

I wonder how many of these less talented people, who are complaining so much, have downloaded freebees themselves. I dare them to say they haven't. Of course, for them to say they haven't would require they reveal themselves and I don't think they wanna do that. Has anyone already made this point? I don't know. I haven't read the whole thread. I got a little burnt out on thread reading recently, hehe. Take me a while to recover.

I only have one thing to say to those lamers who have been flaming you... GET A FUCKING REAL JOB!! I am a seller here on renderosity, and I have no intentions of ever making more than just a few pennies off my sales. I only sell stuff to buy stuff. not to pay my bills. I have a job for that. so why don't those fatass morons get off theyr fat asses and get a fucking job!!! Sorry I rarely curse in posts.. but this just pisses me off!

Well I've had a few nasty letters - but those sound kinda personal. And yes, the style is remarkably consistent. My general feeling is that if my freestuff is better than the marketplace stuff - then the vendor(s) had better get their act in gear :) puts on moderator hat I would like to remind you all to watch your language please :) Lyrra

But, but MOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM! Well, can I at least give 'em the finger? (see thread further on up :) ) /P

hrm, where would be without free stuff? I've only offered a few things myself, those only left up for a few weeks(ack band with again) at a community site. Leave them up on my own site, :) I did most of my first images with the stuff that came with p4, then with other free figures(loved eve and angie...I think I still have them installed somewhere) It was only in the last year and a half that I started buying(caught that vicky bug) Haven't regreted it so far, but that is selfish, unrealistic, of that person(I think it was only one too)to spam like that. Questor your stuff is amazing...I'll keep a look out for it. I have only have one grip for vendors, that is those that make money of off others free stuff...it seems wrong some how, or charge double for textures for lower priced items of other peoples items. I suppose if they had permission, but that is my own thing and not the response of the community.

I haven't read all of this huge thread but here's my AUD$0.02. There is definitely a similarity of style between those letters. I'd go with the one psycho or a small group of them theory. Anybody that seriously thinks they can make a living out of selling stuff at Renderosity has they're head screwed on wrong. For 95% of vendors it can never amount to more than subsidisation of your Poser activities, especially if you buy any decent modelling software. Speaking as a vendor, I wouldn't be in this business if it weren't for the free stuff that got me interested in the first place, the free stuff that taught me how to do things and the free stuff that taught me how not to do things ;-) Free stuff rules. Long live the free stuff.

Questor- your totally right to be pissed. I would be too. So many of the vendors and merchant behave like they are the begining and end all of art. EULA's that say you can use it for this but not that. Subscription that say you can come in but don't you dare download too much (like buying a magazine but not being allowed to read every page. Software that only lets you use it with permission of the developer. At a time of there chosing(don't even think of putting it on two machines in your own room with out explaining why). Your experiance shows that many of the merchants here are nothing but TROLLS themselfs. Never assume that all is well in (paradise?).