What I regard to be the main point in LOGOs intial post, is the fact that Poser 5 has not much to offer for those who want to use it as a tool. What good is it to someone who uses it like a manekin to get poses right when you draw? What good is it to someone who just uses it for character animation who uses it only for character animation/posing for projects done in other application? Nothing more than Poser 4! Let's take me for example. I do most work in Cinema 4D, one of the high end applications. It offers (better) modelling, better rendering, lighting and everything else than Poser. Why do I use Poser? Because it is rather inexpensive, easy to handle, and if you know how to work with the models, how to tweak them in other apps, and what models to use at all, you can get good results. But Poser is not a tool, it is still a toy - just ask some professionals. Why is it just a tool? Because it is limited in features, in same ways, its perfomance is rather weak, and it is problematic to combine it with other applications. CL did a good step to turn Poser in to a tool, as they started to plan improved cooperation with pother apps, like MAX, Lightwave and Cinema, adding a little more value to thier product as well to products they made plugins for. But they screwed it up in some points (discussable, I admit). Thean they came up with plans for increasing this more with Poser 5 - dynamics, collision detection and so on. It may have turned more into a tool with this. But CL designed Poser 5 in a way, that theese features wouldn't be usable in other apps. They even went so far to make the previous plugins not able to be used with new releases of the other products, thus forcing users to upgrade to the new version, which will cost them them money (the upgrade), nerves (the actvation), and may be legal problems (the EULA) just to be able to use what they already have. Is it so hard to understand that Poser and CL have lost that little respect they have gained in the past with theese users? Okay, there are new models in the package, but there are better ones out there, that many already have. They are called Vicky, Mike, Dina and whatever. So, Poser is going back into its ghetto, be laughed at by professionals, instead of opening up more, and gaining reputation. "Owning" software, for most people mean they know they have a license, but are beeing able to use it like they want, make hardware changes like they want, reinstalling it twice a day if they want. It does not mean having to pay for it, and, on top of it, having to ask for permission to use what they have paid for. In an extreme example, imagine having to ask you bakery for permission to eat thier bread with honey instead of jam! Anyone here who would accept this?