ok, still have problems...in p4 renderer, i have to check ignore shader textures in order to get a render. the tex maps are all attached where they should, be, and the document and figure setting do match, light sets are not the problem... im stumped, but can get the p4 renderer to work just fine. but on the setting that works, ff still renderes 2d black on the figure.....im stumped. maybe its a video card issue, setting, or something...i have a geforce 4 (msi) 4200 w/ 128 megs.....any more ideas?