sorry snows thatone must have gotten into your folder by mistake :) Sorry TallyJC I don't expect complete backward compatability especially with a renderer which uses a vastly different material setup to mean that for best results use it just as you used P4. you gotta work a little to get better results. yes I think that the material room setting falloff at .6 is a glitch which should be fixed. the new user that installs most victoria textures that I am aware of won't be dealing with .bum files as most come with .jpg files which need to be converted in P4 to .bum format. Yes I am guessing that for many people the firefly renderer will be too slow for animating untill vastly faster systems are available but as you say you can get good results with the P4 renderer for that. and for the new features only the hair doesn't render well in that renderer.