Hi Anthony. I've applied the first patch and I still can't make models, so I'm making them in Poser 4. I tried it with the new set up room, got the bones right, everything worked ok until I tried saving it in a new character gallery for my props. No luck, most of the model had dissapeared again. I think there is still a major bug here, but I can't get any response from Poser tech support. Hey, I didn't know there was a second Poser 5 patch, I could only find one on the Poser site! Will have to look again. And also, the camera keyboard shortcuts still aren't reliable after the patch. Can't get control M for main view most of the time. I reccomend you buy Poser 5 Anthony, at least for the ease of use and there's less chance of going blind trying to see the badly designed interface of P4! You can still make models in P4 AND the CR2's transfer well into P5. The only difference is that P5 uses a 'png' file to display the thumbnail, and this replaces the 'rsr' BUT that thumbnail dissapears if you try and transfer CR2 files back to P4. I have a nasty feeling there are going to be a lot of patches for P5.