Simonwm, Are you saying that we should set are expectations low and be happy for what ever might exceed those expectations? I've been through the Autodesk/Kinetix/deiscreet bugs with 3D Studio DOS all the way to Max and have lived with the facts of hardware and software incompatibilities. I've "shelved" software that never operated as advertised. I had a pre-poser package called "Humanoid"(not even worth further comment). Perhaps it's me, but I expect to be able to use my time learning the tools and integrating them into creative efforts... not fixing problems. Perhaps it's the industry as a whole that's the problem. Maybe it's we consumers who have enabled the industry. It seems as if companies find dealing with "damage control" easier than comprehensive pre-release testing (not a good long-term strategy). I don't have the answer, but it seems to me that the release of P5 might have been a bit premature. As I have said; I will invest in P5 when the number of problems diminsish and I thank all of those who are taking their time to debug. If not for the members of this and other forums CL might sell more initially, but their outlook would be dire. My expectations are high and I expect them to be reasonably met. Visque