SimonWM. Adobe only produce Atmosphere which is a 3d web realisation tool not, as far as I know, a cgi development tool (like Poser) and requires the use of external applications such as Avatar Lab in order to be used properly. I'm not aware of anything else 3d from them. Microsoft produce no 3d Applications at all. So, seeing as you're picking a hole in my answer, how's about you use relevant examples yourself rather than two of the largest software manufacturers around? Last time I checked, Adobe were primarily 2D graphics, and Microsoft were also primarily 2d based with Office, Windows etc etc. No, I'm not counting games in this. Unless of course I missed something and they both now produce 3d development software? So. If you want answers relevant to something, perhaps you should generalise less yourself. As for McNeel. They hardly set a precedent did they? Microsoft did it from early days with Windows allowing a very broad spectrum of users to "test" the software before dumping it on an ususpecting public. Several other companies also allow broad based beta testing. Curious most likely did not have the time to indulge in something like that - doesn't mean they couldn't have though. Every company "could" do that. Most choose not to. JCleaver: You're right, some people have gone over the edge, perhaps because of complete frustration. As was pointed out elsewhere the majority or people on this site are not technically savvy, they're hobbyists and artists. The Pooser threads were not looking for help, just apparently an angry person venting. But, I think you'll agree that they were somewhat unique and it hasn't been repeated since.