"And naturally, since any beta testers would be bound by NDA and unable to contradict or verify that, you're reasonably safe in making the assertion. Valid or not." I was a beta tester and I can verify that. from what I saw during the beta program, we beta users did not have these problems. there were no known show-stopper bugs in the software when it shipped. and thanks for the good words from all. I've been trying to keep a can-do attitude towards just seeing what the problems are. what I'm seeing from last nights thread is that if we can identify the problems. then they get fixed.