You like Rhino? the nurbs libraries are licensed from the same company that Alias licenses them from (they might even be licensed from Alias). Maya licenses it's tech from various other research companies as well. In addition, in programs like Rhino, and Maya, the actual engine's are just a small part of the program, and don't even deal with the most basic building blocks like data structures, etc. i love rhino. and, one difference between it and p5...it works...each and every time. even my old version 1.0 works each and every time. and, mcneel also does autocad...which also has a habit of working CORRECTLY, yup...everytime. i was seriously gonna buy p5. then, came the "eula" controversy. the eula is simply words. it, as yet, has not been reworked even one little bit. in a thread on another site, kupa said it would be looked over, yet again, and reworded...of course, he also said that they had gotten new lawyers. that was at least a month ago. and, folks ARE having big troubles with p5. rhino can run on an athlon, intel...what have ya with no troubles...how dare you compare the 2 programs? rhino, and mcneel is a small company, beta tests its stuff thoroughly....free beta testers...not the first few hundred who purchase the program. cl has violated their "warrantee of merchantibility"...i.e. failing to produce a product that does what it is supposed to do. i would most certainly....had i bought it....been demanding a refund. they breached their contract. surely, you are aware of that. jack...cool story. but, it made me very sad. and, i was thinking of pets, not poser.