Carolly, no personal offense towards anyone. I'm in the same camp as my brother who thinks Mr. G should be in jail for crimes against the economy (long story) and some programmer friends who see their stuff on win every day with no royalties and no money to sue the monster. Congrats to Stacker on the doublespace thingie. What I said about Jobbs/Gates was merely history, nothing more. We all have our opinions, and so do the courts for that matter. Still, its a lesson on control vs. power. The two are not the same. There was a time back in the 286/386 days when Intel wanted to create market frenzy so they helped AMD. Then they yanked the chain when they thought they had the power. An arbitrator gave an award to AMD that was way beyond what a judge could do and as a result, well, er, some think AMD has passed up intel. My thoughts are that where there is a freedom of creativity, things flourish. Where there is control, there are wilted roses. Most lose from single vision blinders. All benefit from a full garden. History has a way of repeating itself. Yeah, I remember the DAZ protection of their copyright. There's a rule about that which all copyright folks need to observe which is protecting your work to a reasonable degree. Fail the rule and you may find your work in the public domain. They did it right. But I digress. Time will tell. And remember, as the poet said, time and tide wait for no man. CL and DAZ are on the move each reaching for a market share. CL had the lead and released before it was ready and has the scorn. DAZ held back and is still developing. Who will come out on top? Time and tide will tell.