Can i just say everything jim just said to save me typing.....and add this image of what i get with a flipped normal on the chest rendered in poser, i get the same result after running through uvmapper and unchecking the export normals box.....not saying i shouldn't use it i just can't see how poser doesn't use normals ?......Steve, confused PS carolly if there inside out just flip all normals, you can do that on import 7th box down or in uvmapper, tools/facets/invert