williamsheil - "Implemented in a in inefficient, geometry only, and therefore limited way, also incompatible with most other apps."

I do not believe the Poser hair IS geometry based, if it was there would be no problem hooking it up to other programs. I am fairly sure it is based on a custom shader concept much like other systems of it's type.

williamsheil  - "That must be an Easter Egg. ;-) I've been limited to Firefly which was an attempt to implement a fast scan-line rendering technology with limited hybrid raytracing."

A scanline/raytrace hybrid is a fine and modern method of handling such things, the fact remains that Poser5 can do optically correct reflections, refractions and shadows. it lacks radiosity and GI, but then again so do many ray tracers.

Poppi - "seems as if they have only dug their hole deeper."

Except by all the information I can see Poser5 is a successful product. While a minority are having problems, many others are using the program and are happy with the features.

CL has a good basis here, and clearly they are stomping issues in a timely manner, this will work out just fine.

skee - "Great story Jack, I'm just sorry some people can't see ."

Maybe instead of thinking those of us who "can't see" blind, you may want to consider it simply isn't true for us :)

DTHUREGRIF - "I don't think anybody thinks it's wrong per se to license technology. There probably wouldn't be anything at all said if these great new features seemed like they were truly integrated into the program and really worked at the level promised. If that was the case, nobody would care."

Ok, I have to know, how much more integrated could the cloth dynamics engine be? I mean, where is the problematic "lack of integration".  Maybe it's because I understand the underlying technology but I cannot for the life of me see a better or more complete way to integrate it.

Feel free to do the same for hair, you or anyone. This is NOT a "do it better" rant, but an honest question - if the cloth room is badly integrated then perhaps you can tell me where the problem is?