Poppi - "seems as if they have only dug their hole deeper." Except by all the information I can see Poser5 is a successful product. While a minority are having problems, many others are using the program and are happy with the features. CL has a good basis here, and clearly they are stomping issues in a timely manner, this will work out just fine. cl has a good following, here...on this site. they had a chance to come out and really SHINE....instead, they rushed production. this is not good business. word of mouth, especially on the internet, counts alot. you've got a business, too, soul...you know that. and, the only reason i can see for them releasing it before the bugs were fixed is .....lack of funds. if the cloth room is badly integrated then perhaps you can tell me where the problem is? i don't have p5. if folks had had a better time of using it, i would have shrugged off my questions about the new eula, and gotten it. i WANTED that face room. by the way, i hear that does not work too well. i did not want the strand based hair. i did not want the "cloth room"....drape is a simple command in my modelling program...if i want to drape vicki...i can drape her, there, and export the whole thing. and, maybe, that is why the cloth room works well....drape is a simple command. the hair looks really ugly, to me. but, halloween is coming and folks could have fun making cousin it look a likes. rendering...i did not really WANT p5 for that...i use bryce, pretty much always. the shape shifter....i did not want that...i have zbrush, and rhino to morph stuff. textures...i have deep paint, and zbrush for that..... but, i wanted that FACE ROOM. and i WANTED to see cool new p5 stuff in the gallery....not happening. i will wait....a few years....and, maybe i will luck out and pick up a copy of p5 at compusa for $89 dollars, like i did with bryce 5. but, this is not good business for cl. folks like me could be sending in our money...as we speak. they got their initial buyers....and those initial buyers had big troubles...so, the rest of us...who would wait a bit before buying are now not buying...even if we WANTED stuff.