"I dont limit myself I enjoy breaking the rules slynky and the main difference is I dont call it photography!" it was a question i asked, there was no statement in my question that said otherwise of what is quoted above from yourself, so don't get too pissed off at me for something i never said. "Not unless as I have made perfectly plain it is in camera." you'd then have to define what a "camera" could be. I have seen pictures taken with fruit believe it or not (in the form of pinhole exposure). would you call a hollowed out asparagus a camera? What if you stuffed some film inside it, and an image was made... hmmm... I've also seen extremely large contact prints made with an old Chevrolet (i believe it was a chevy, can't recall). Is it a car, or a camera? I wonder is phosphor burn in could be considered photographic... afterall, after a long enough EXPOSURE, an IMAGe is EMBEDDED on the SURFACE of an OJECT. I only capitalized words that would be integral to describe what "might" make something a photograph or the product of photography... any thoughts?