none taken mysnapz ...you are correct though...when i see a creation be it a straight photo, a manipulated photo or a photorealistic rendering, i'm drawn to it because it contains elements that i may like whatever that may be... i just like to appreciate the end product and not get too lost in the mumbo jumbo... while i appreciate the debate, i don't think this will be resolved...just enjoy the pictures and making them :-P

Pictures appear to me, I shoot them.   Elliot Erwitt