PheonixRising on 10/25/02 10:49 "Ps: Rereading you email I think you are daunted because there was a change in P5 someone reported where all the morphs for "changing" parts are now listed together into one giant list where in P4 they just appeared with the part they were using. Sorry. We have no control over that change in P5." Nope, not one of my issues at all. Does P5 do this? Hadn't noticed it... "Like I said all the dials are labeled with Prefixes though. Fringybangs start with FB... StrandBangs start with S.... Curled Bangs start with CB.... etc etc" Starting to get there now - although I've not seen that before. Maybe it's in 1 of the e-mails I haven't read? I'll get to them later, hopefully. "his is what I woudl describe as "somewhat inexcessive" as far as documentation for a product costing multiple tens of dollars is concerned (especially where the per-item manufacturing costs is low due to a lack of materials being used). I'm not a particularly skilled hairdresser, but I'm pretty sur eI know where the fringe is. I'd guess that maybe fringy bands, therefore, would be near the fringe (or be the fringe). Since they are curled, though, I couldn't tell you where the Curled Bangs are. I'd like to refer to the image no. in the user manual (documentation) where all this is laid out, except it isn't. there's no such documentation. where I said in my original e-mail: 'Anyway, I wondered if there was any documentation on the huge array of options because I'm having trouble shaping the hair past (rather than through) the young lady's cheeks' What I meant was 'I would like to see some documentation that tells me how to use this thing, labels the parts, or at least describes what the acronyms used MEAN'. In case this still isn't clear, let's start with some of the advertising blurb: ---------------------------------------------------- HAIR - 59.95 Perfectly transmapped, over 100 poseable styles are possible using Vicki's Changing Ponytail figure 5 poseable ponytails 4 poseable bang options 4 free textures Hairline shaping morphs to fit all your versions of Vicki or Poser4Nude Female. 16 shaping, stylizing, motion, and length morphs EXPANSION PAK - $29.95 73 NEW detailed shaping, stylizing, motion, and length morphs for the 6 bangs, 1 base and 11 ponytails. Includes a new type of morph, not available in any other product for Poser, which swells the size of each individual strand without changing the way you've styled the hair. Expands Victoria 2.0's Changing Ponytail Collection to 11 Ponytail alternates and 6 Bang Alternates 5 New Ponytail poseable alternates 2 New Bang alternates ----------------------------------------------------- Now I for one would contend that a product of that apparent power, that aparent flexibility, that much complexity and a full prioe tag of nigh-on $90 deserves SOME documentation. Poser 5 is busy rendering a test aniamtion at present - based on MIMIc with "Ugly Girl from the 60's" that you've so kindly posted publically for me, and using said hairpeice. It's gonna take a while, so I can't read out the names of the dials for you - but are you SERIOUSLY telling me that a plea from a Poser 5 user for some form of documention shoudl be met with a response telling him (or her) that DAZ products are not supported under Poser 5??? Does such a product not DESERVE at least a simple manual? Does it not even deserve a readme which gives up-to-date web and e-mail addresses???? Questor on 10/25/02 10:52 Poser 5 was never the issue - at least until DAZ made it the issue. Moonbiter on 10/25/02 11:11 Can't add anything of any value here, certainly can't contradict :) danfarr on 10/25/02 11:17 My problem was and is unrelated to the fact that I run Poser 5. see above, but CL and Poser 5 are irrelevant to the product containing no documentation, my asking (initially quite politely I thought) for assistance in finding such documentation, and then Poser 5 being made such an issue out of. "As far as the future development of Poser 5 specific products (that incedently are useless for the majority of the customers who still only have Poser 4 at this time) we are working with Curious Labs on an agreement that would make us feel comfortable to do so (a unilateral agreement for all developers)." Yay, go for it. "This is definitely not a "pissing match" but a real catch 22 situation." If we're going to use terms like "pissing" then, frankly, I felt pissed on BEFORe Anton dug in and started sharing the exact contents of private communications (OK, I'm learning that nothing in a private communication is sacred around here, it's just taking time to come to terms with). I had an issue unrelated to anything but poor and incorrect documentation in a product purchased from DAZ, and feel like I've been pissed on from a great height - at least partly by someone shouting "Hey! Have some consideration will you? I'm trying to enjoy the sunshine up here!" "Our number one interest is to support you the customers." Glad to hear it, and I hope that this glitch at best contributes to getting the best resolution to what/who you support sooner than otherwise - because if it doesn't then it's been a waste of time and effort :( danfarr on 10/25/02 11:25 "I wanted to mention one more thing. As always we do offer a full 30 day satisfaction guarantee on our products. So if Poser 5 is unable to support Poser 4 content and you are unable to get the support you need from CL about combatability of Poser 4 created products we are willing to give your money back on your purchase. But according to Curious Labs, Poser 4 products should work fine in Poser 5." Please stop it. Stop the pissing match, because that's most certainly what you're doing. Creative Labs cannot help me with the utter lack of documentation provided with Victoria's Changing Ponytail Collection & Victoria's Changing Ponytail Expansion Pak. This is in no way whatsoever a Poser 5 problem but soley an issue with DAZ/Anton providing what I consider to be an incomplete (as undocumented) product, and the failure of DAZ to respond to my initially polite call for help with a positive or helpful response first time. second time - anton's e-mails to me - are probably much better, but to tell a customer he's not supported as the first step and attempt to lay the blame at Curious Labs's door is so incredibly ingenuous that I am seriously considering requesting a refund for everythign from platinum membership and onwards and washing my hands of DAZ. Get a backbone, stand up for yourself and stop trying to spread waht looks like malicious rumour!!! Questor on 10/25/02 11:33 "But to slam someone for not supporting something they can't use is ludicrous." If you can find anywhere wher eI have done this then I apologise from the ehart of my bottom, but that is so far removed from my issues that I'm stunned at how well the DAZ folk and/or supporters seem to be making this the issue. "Seems to me that someone just wanted to rant and start another argument." I refute that utterly and without exception, and indeed take great offense from it as nothing could have been further from my mind. Please respond to this and let me know if, having hopefulyl realised that Poser 5 is indeed irrelevant to my plight, let me know if you still think I was trolling, and I shall have to consider how to proceed (e.g. whether to quite posting on this subject on the basis of being unable to make myself understood). Moonbiter on 10/25/02 12:36 You've a good way with words :) Lapis: Hehe - no worries. My favourite one is where people think I'm on "Daz's side" or "CL's side" or "Renderosity's side". I am, of course, on my side - I want stuff that works. Preferably stuff that works well, and works easily - and that's about the limit of my agenda (with a side-serving of consideration for other users who might fall into the same pitfalls as myself if not warned - but that comes after wanting the best for myself!). now...what else has been written meanwhile? I ought to read Anton's e-mails... Cliff Bowman PS had to split my post in 2, apparently it was too big...